Michael Chernow's Recipe for Redemption

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you

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We like to say every day is a vacay. Welcome to the Vacay Podcast. I'm Ryan, off of your co-host. We've got Chris Hansen, my business partner, my good friend and my co-host here on the Vacay Podcast. We're pretty pumped today. We've got someone we've both been following from afar, admiring both his values, his approach to life, and a lot of stuff he's doing in the business world, Michael Chernow. Welcome to the show.

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Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Appreciate it, man. But involving all your stuff in New York City, having lived there for multiple years, I...

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I always thought, I thought when I lived there, I'd always go, what would it be like to grow up here? Cause I was like in my early thirties and when I lived there and it was like, it was cool, but I was in the middle of my career. I was like, what would it be like to grow up in New York city, have the cred of that and all the success you've had. But I know we'll talk about some of those stories, but I always had those thoughts living there. So I know we'll probably delve into some of the impact that had on you and your life and otherwise. Sure. Growing up in New York city.

01:14
I wouldn't change it for anything. I believe that it shaped the man I am today, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And I will say that now having kids of my own, I thought for sure that we were gonna raise our kids in New York City because I believe that having the kinda... New York City's got this never-ending motion.

01:39
There's never a moment where you're not, where you don't feel like things are active. Doesn't matter what time of day or night, where you're at. There's this energy in the streets of New York that makes you want to do things. Make do create. That's like the way I felt. I describe it as like from as early as I can remember, I wanted to make do and create. And I think that's because I grew up in New York City. It was just

02:07
nonstop. And so I wanted that for my kids. I wanted that kind of grit, that feeling of, of that, that inherent desire to want to crush. And then we moved out of New York City and we moved to upstate New York where it's just unbelievably beautiful. Got a big property and the kids are just unsupervised. They're in the swimming pool all day. It's just, it's a totally different, it's a totally different environment.

02:35
There is not that fast-paced grit, grind, hustle. And I'm okay with it. I'm gonna try to, I like, I've got a good friend. His name is Joe DeSenta. He's the founder of the Spartan Race. And he and I speak all the time and he creates adversity in his household for his kids. He makes it. He makes them do things that are hard all the time. So that, because the life that he's created for his family.

03:04
They'll never have to worry. There's no worry that they will have everything they need and then some. And so he's made it his business to like, because he also grew up in Queens, New York, and he and I have a lot in common there. So he creates this adversity and I do too. My wife kicks my ass for it. My kids want Pokemon cards. They're doing a hundred squats, 50 pushups, 50 sit-ups and 50 ring rows, period done. That's what you're doing. I'm sorry. Or finding something to sell.

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And typically it's, let's go make some lemonade.

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and put it out in front of that in front of our house and sell some lemonade, make a couple hundred bucks because that's what they do when they do that. But they can't do that all year. So it's work out or selling shit. That's that's how they get their Pokemon cards. So I can relate to that Pokemon story and the lemonade stand. We live in a real like area downtown. And I'll be like, look, you want some money. Go set up the just water because people walk by. They're going downtown. Everybody's walking and shit. They'll make two or three hundred dollars in two hours.

04:05
the waters. But it teaches them and it makes money. And I think but it's interesting you talk about grit like back in New York City. That was the one thing I respected like when I worked there was like there wasn't. It drove me crazy a little bit, but it also I respected the hustle, the vibe, like the grit, like everybody's like trying to outwork the next person. There's definitely I don't know if it's work ethic. That's certainly part of it, but it's an energy of I but drive and being in the

04:35
It was like the badge of honor. Hey man, we worked an all nighter last night, man. We worked all weekend. It was like, but I respected it because the hustle, the grind, whatever you want to call it, that energy is hard to duplicate people. You, people say it and you just talked about it. And if you don't live there, you're not around it. You don't, you may not just, you might just roll your eyes, not know what that means, but there is totally that kind of, I don't know, chutzpah or whatever the hell it is coming out of the city. Definitely.

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And it was a big part of my. It is a big part of my DNA. Yeah, clearly you got your hands in so much, man. Restaurants, shows. Talk to us about that journey, man. What's what? Where did it all start? We can go all the way back. I grew up lights. Yeah, well, hit the highlights along the way. I grew up in I grew up in New York City, right? I grew up in the heart of it in Manhattan.

05:31
I, my parents didn't have a lot of cash. They weren't broke, but I would say they were lower middle class. My dad was an electrician. My mom was a secretary and it was rough in my house. It was a, it was not a safe, comfortable place. My dad was raised by a hardcore naval officer. My grandfather was hardcore military and he was, he just did not take shit.

05:57
And so my dad really had it tough with my grandfather. And he passed that down. Right. He had a really hard time being a dad. My dad, he didn't have time for anybody around him. And he wanted respect from everybody. And I had a hard time giving him respect because he never showed me any love. And so he and I used to just bang it out. We used to fight verbally. He was aggressive, very aggressive for my younger years. And then once I was old enough to fight back, we were we would throw fists.

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pretty regularly from, I don't know, 11 till I moved out at 15. But it was a rough, it was rough in there and I knew, and I, they, they weren't giving me any money for shit that I wanted, whatever I wanted, I had to earn. And so I went out and got jobs. I started working at about 10, what were I, there was a lot of high rise buildings where I lived and I made these flyers and I.

06:47
I was like, I'm gonna just walk dogs. I'm gonna walk dogs, five bucks a walk. I'm gonna make these flyers with my phone number on them. People, I'm gonna put them in the laundry room of these big tall high rise buildings. And I asked the doorman, say, hey, can I pop in and put this up on the board in the laundry room? And they would let me do it. So I would just hit all these buildings. Before I knew it, I was walking like 30 dogs. And so after school from 3.30 till 5.36, I was going from dog to dog and it was nuts. And finally my mother had to.

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pulled the plug on it because I wasn't ready to like slow down the business. And she was like, you're fucking 11 years old, dude. Like you can't, this is this you're not, you can't be out after dark walking dogs by yourself. And so I transitioned and I got a job at, I actually got a job at the rectory at St. Thomas Moore's church where I'd sit at the desk in the front and people I'd be, I'd have people sign the funeral cards and the wedding cards. And that didn't last too long. I was like, get me out of here.

07:42
And I got a job delivering videos for couch potato video. This is back in the VHS days. And then I got a job in a restaurant delivering food. And that is where I found solace. That is where I felt like, okay, I like this environment. I was, it got me out of my house at night. I was making some good cash. I was in the restaurant. I was on the street. I was delivering, I was delivering food on rollerblades. This is back in the day when rollerblades were like.

08:10
Cool. And so I was the fastest delivery guy they had. I didn't have to worry about locking the bike up or anything. I was just like, this is all over the city. And then eventually they asked me to come into the kitchen to dishwash and prep cook and cook. And then back into the front of the house, I would pick up some bus boy shifts. I just loved the restaurant business. I love the restaurant business. And it started getting really bad at my house. And that's when I also loved starting around 12, 13 years old.

08:39
drinking and doing drugs. And I got it. I would argue to say that kind of saved my life at that point because I was really not happy at home and I was having some pretty nasty thoughts. And when I got, when I was able to figure out a way to self-medicate my mind with drinking and doing drugs, it just allowed me to deal with what was happening at home and not want to die. And that became my life, working in restaurants and partying for, from about

09:07
14, 13, 14 to 23. And it was fun for four or five years. I enjoyed it. I moved out of my parents' house at 15. I stayed in school somehow, some way. I've graduated high school, but I was living out on people's couches. I was living in kids' dorm rooms. I was all over the streets of New York, wild, man, selling drugs, doing drugs, being, but always had a job in a restaurant. And it took a turn for the worst, about 19. I had an experience where I was

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hanging with the wrong people, doing the wrong things. And I got robbed at gunpoint in my apartment in the Lower East Side. I got a gun shoved down my mouth, in my mouth. I got pistol whipped, duct taped, tied up, thrown into a bathtub and like scared to death. Literally, I thought I was, I didn't think I was gonna, I didn't think they were gonna kill me, but it was one of the, it was one of the more scary things that had happened to me in my life. And

10:05
And unfortunately, it didn't snap me out of the like deep hole I dug in the, in the addiction space, like in the world of addiction, it didn't snap me out of that. But it did get me to leave New York and move out to California where I really got into trouble and I didn't slow, I didn't slow down in California. I really started, picked it up because I was like new and nobody kind of knew what I was about, so I was able to just start fresh with a bunch of bad people.

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And I did, and then a year later, car crashes, motorcycle wreck, just bad news. I came back to New York, my father passed away. I felt relief when that happened, to be fair, to be honest, I know that sounds pretty rough, but like for me, it was really hard, my father and I, and I felt like I had finally had peace with him now that he wasn't there to fight with me anymore. I feel differently about that today, but at that time in my life, that's what I was feeling. And then I spent two more years in deep.

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trouble with drugs, really drugs and alcohol became my life. And I was still working in restaurants, but I was bad news. Finally, at 23 years old, I had overdosed. I was like, I hated myself. And I blacked out one night, slept through work. My boss fired me. My job was the last thing I had tethered to life. I begged him for my job and he made me an ultimatum.

11:25
And he was like, dude, I can't watch you die on my dime. I love you. He was like a surrogate kind of dad. He was an old, older than me, of course. He owned the restaurant. And he was like, you gotta get sober, dude. You just gotta, you gotta get sober. You can't do this anymore. You're gonna die. I'm watching you die. Everybody's watching you die. And you've got so much to offer. Everybody loves you, but you're just wasting away. And he's like, you can come to the restaurant at eight o'clock in the morning, clean the restaurant with the porters for 30 days. And if I find out that you've had a single sip of alcohol or done a single drug, you're done.

11:54
And that was the last time I did a drug or drank. So I've been sober now 19 years. And when I got sober, I was introduced to fitness and nutrition. And then eventually mindset work, meditation, breath works, things like that. But everything in my life changed when I was able to replace the bad habits that I had sustained.

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consistently, like with conviction and dedication and commitment. I replaced those with great habits, fitness, nutrition, and trying to just pull myself out of this rut that I had been in for a while. And when I found out that I committing to my wellness, committing to my fitness, committing to my to what I put into my body, I felt like I was winning.

12:43
I felt like it was like the first time in my life where I was like, oh, wait, like I'm really winning. I'm not trying to control my mood with some sort of substance. Like I'm doing something admirable to be a better human being for myself so that I can ultimately be better for others. Like literally, this is the stuff that this these two guys that came in and winged me introduced to me.

13:05
And everything in my life changed, man. Everything changed. I became passionate about, originally it was Muay Thai kickboxing and I became obsessed with it. And I was training really hard and sparring all the time and eventually competing and fighting. And then running became a part of my life. So I got into this long distance running thing. But that whole time I had been focused on this restaurant. I knew that I wanted to have my own business.

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And once everything started to change, I met my wife about eight months into sobriety. My wife and I have been together a long ass time. And she supported me, the crazy son of a bitch I was. Like I was very straight up with her. I was like, hey, I just want you to know. What you're getting into. Yeah, just understand that I am like a 12 year old boy and I'm learning how to be a man. And if you can deal with me, I will.

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love you forever. And I was I stuck to my word and she stuck to hers. And so when I was 28, I went to culinary school when I was 26, graduated at 28, wrote a business plan for my first business, the meatball shop, raised money from 14 regulars that watched me for eight years in this restaurant, go from an addict to an adult. And they invested in me 14 checks and opened up my first business

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New York City, meatball shop, took off like wildfire. I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew that I was doing something good. And it was crazy, man. We were cooking meatballs on the Today Show, Good Morning America, Jay Leno, Chelsea Handler, Jimmy Fallon, like it was crazy. It was crazy. They did two TV shows about us. It was nuts. And then I sold a bunch of equity after about six restaurants. We built six restaurants. My partner and I really didn't see eye to eye on the growth trajectory. Like we couldn't align on.

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how we saw it going out of market. So I said, why don't you guys buy some of my equity and I'm gonna go open up another restaurant concept because I love that brand building culture, creating design stuff, that early day stuff, like really excites me. And so I developed another concept called Seamours, which is a sustainable seafood restaurant. I raised some money for that. I opened that up in 2015, crushed it, did six of those, sold equity and sold some equity after about five years.

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and began the process of creating the business that I have today, which is called Creatures of Habit, which is a lifestyle wellness CPG company. And it is way more aligned with my lifestyle because fitness and nutrition have always been the foundation, the core of my success and happiness. Like, I really do believe I know that I'm going off on a tangent here, so I'm gonna shut the fuck up in a second. But if there's anything anybody can get from this story,

15:56
What I would tell you is that if you're struggling, if you don't know like what the next step is, if you're like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what my career is gonna be. I don't know if I'm an entrepreneur. Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. Like all I will tell you is this, if you can commit to yourself through fitness and nutrition consistently, you can apply that commitment to

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everything and anything else in your life that you want. One of the hardest things to do in life is to commit to yourself through fitness and nutrition. It really is consistently. It's one of the hardest things to do. And if you can get into a rhythm with that, the confidence that you build ultimately creates this mountain of courage because courage is impossible without confidence.

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And what a lot of people are missing are the stepping stones to this confidence piece. For me, from my experience, the way you get there is through self-love and self-care, taking care of yourself every fucking day and making you the priority in your life so that you can be of service to the other people you love. And so that's my story, man. I started building with fitness and nutrition. I did it consistently. I started creating confidence and self-love. That confidence turned into courage. That courage allowed me to take a risk and open a first business.

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take a risk and open a second business. Now I feel like I really understand how to open businesses and I'm only 42. I've got another 40 years of work ahead of me. I'm just here to tell you that if anybody's listening and they feel lost, turn it back on yourself, look in the mirror and say, you're the first thing I'm gonna attack. You're the first thing in the mirror, you, that the person I'm looking at, the first fucking thing I am gonna go after and win. And then.

17:46
I got the I'll have the ability to apply it to everything else. Amen.

17:52
We let you go because it was fucking impactful, dude. And that's what people need to hear. A lot of people go on these podcasts. They feel like they got it. Like we need to say something. I just was enthralled of if I had popcorn out of an evening, like for real, the healthy con, no butter on that shit. It all serious. I'll say this. So a few things resonate with me. I have no idea. There's the culture of restaurants is drugs and alcohol. Sorry. It is what it is, especially like high end restaurants. I worked in them, been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

18:21
And I don't know how you manage to stay in it and be out of it. That's probably a whole nother podcast of the restaurant culture in a lot of ways. And I don't, and I'm not knocking anybody, but it's a nighttime event. There's alcohol around at all times. You get off at 1 a.m. And what the hell are you going to do? You don't have to go to work till 3 p.m. the next day. So hats off to you to pulling off that feat and staying in the industry. But I will say, look, it becomes cliche.

18:48
Like everybody hears it, but I don't think they really, they hear it, but they're not listening. Which is, if you don't take care of your, you can't apply energy and outrun yourself being in a bad spot. You can't do it. You have to be in the right spot with your health, with your mindset, with all, you have to take care of yourself before you can apply your total effect on anything else.

19:18
And the one thing I'll say, hearing you and like your dad, my dad and I are opposite, like from what y'all were, very close, my dad instilled within me and my sister health and fitness, I was 13 year old, he put me in a gym and he ran five miles every day of my life and my sister and I both have been gym nuts and health nuts. Not always, I went to college and put on the freshman 15, drinking and all that shit, but my ass was in the gym though four days a week even in college. You cannot underestimate the.

19:48
the impact that has on you and that it had on me, but also hearing someone like you that had to fucking learn it the hard way and fucking turn it into a blessing is super impactful, man.

20:01
Thank you, dude. I really do believe it at my core that it is, I could say that it is the solution for my mental health stuff, because I battled with it. Like I was truly miserable, depressed, like suicidal thoughts constantly when I was in this 10 year period where I just could not figure, I could not see the way out, man. I couldn't see it out.

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I just, I thought that this was the way it was. Like I, you know, like you said, man, I'm working till two o'clock in the morning. I'm partying until six and I'm waking up at three and I'm rolling and I lived upstairs from the restaurant. So I'm just go rolling downstairs at four, four 30 to get my shift started. Starting my day with a glass of wine full to the brim in a big tumbler thinking like, oh, it's just wine but this was every day. And then boom, as soon as that wine hit this, hit the gut.

20:58
I'd feel settled and then bow, I'd be using the dry goods. And it was just a terrible, I was hiding from life. And I think the way you, for me, and again, obviously, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a mental health, I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, but I can tell you that if you find somebody who's struggling with mental health or feeling lost,

21:27
and you tell them to go for a 30 minute walk, a 30 minute walk. And this person, especially for someone who does not take walks, right? Well, you tell that person to go outside and take a 30 minute walk, they are gonna feel better on the way back than they did on the way out. It's just that, it's just that simple. Now you get that person running five miles, lifting heavy weights, challenging themselves, maybe doing a sport like...

21:56
It really does. It just changes the game. It changes the game. My, and, and, and the way this has evolved for me is. And everybody at my company knows. Like I scheduled two hours of fitness every single day. And it's not, it's in the dead smack in the middle of the day, in the middle of the day, it's time blocked on my calendar. No meetings, no calls. This is like.

22:25
the most important thing for my life. Because I know that when I feel well inside, man, I am showing up as a better business owner, a better business partner, a better husband, a better father, a better son, a better brother, I get like all of it. Like I'm just better when I feel good. I'm better when I feel good. And a lot of people walk around not feeling good or feeling stressed out and they can't figure out why. But when they peel back the onion, I don't do anything positive for myself.

22:53
I have a lot of money, I got a great car, I got a big house, I got the wife, I got the... But I'm like on the fucking brink of cardiac arrest because I don't do anything for myself. And I would much rather have half the bank account and feel awesome, right? Because at the end of the day, like, we want to feel good. With like the whole... Like the reason why you would work your ass off to get the awesome car, to get the... All that shit.

23:18
It's to feel good. You want to feel happy. That stuff you think is going to just make you happy. That's why you go so hard and work so hard for it. But really, it doesn't matter what you have if you don't enjoy what you've got in between your two ears. If you don't love the person you are or you don't feel like the person you are is like the the the guy you want to be or the gal you want to be. And it doesn't matter what you have in the in the garage. It doesn't. It doesn't matter how big the house is.

23:47
because you still walk around with your with what's in between your two ears. Michael, do you think you hit rock bottom and you had that business owner tell you drew the line in the sand for you? Did it have to do you think it looking back a million things, different things could have happened, right? Obviously you could have fucking killed yourself and you were this close to doing it. Sounds like. Oh yeah.

24:13
Did the line in the sand have to get drawn? Or do you think it was in you to become that person? Was it nature or nurture? Like it's obviously a combination. Cause I hear someone, I see the greatness in you and I hear it. So it feels like this was coming out at some point. But it's, but I always have this curiosity. We've all had these points in our lives. And I know Chris, we've been transparent. I've had these moments and that line in the, you just had to have that absolute moment. You needed him to put that line there for you.

24:44
I don't, I can't tell you I know the answer to that. I can tell you that the person I am today feels like the person I am, I was born to be. Yeah. And the person I was then, the person I am today needed to experience the person I was then to get here. I really don't regret a second of it. I don't regret any of it. I wouldn't change any part of my life outside of, I had a sports coach that...

25:09
molested me as a little kid, which sucked. I didn't, it wasn't like rape or anything like that, but it was, that definitely is something that I wish didn't happen. Shit. But aside from that, I wouldn't change anything. I really wouldn't. I think we have to get through what we go through to land where we are. And so I don't know if that was like.

25:34
I just think that's the journey I went on, man. And you're probably right. I probably would have come out of it at some point anyway. But the scary thing is that 75% of my friends from those days are dead. And now anyone who I partied with then that somehow made it into their 30s and still did what they did then, all died in their 30s from fentanyl because it was in drugs that they didn't know about potentially. So a lot of them OD'd and died.

26:03
And every six months to a year, I get a call from this one woman who I know. If her number shows up in my phone, someone's dead. My best friend, the godfather of my older son, Finn, has been missing for five months. And no one knows where he is. He was sober a long time with me. Unbelievable life. One of the greatest musicians of all time.

26:26
played with Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeroes, was in an amazing band called Dawes, traveled the world with Bob Dylan and married to this really amazing woman. And four years ago, fell off. And he's been living on Skid Row and then people can't find him now. And in my mind, I'm like, my best friend is dead, you know? And that's how severe it is, that's how serious it is. So chances are, if Frank didn't...

26:56
Give me that dude. This is the end of the rope with me. I would probably be dead. I would imagine. And the reason I asked that is I think people listening and certain people that may not have that fucking gut punch like life or death moment.

27:13
how they can snap into the things that you're talking about. Oh, my life's okay, you know, I'm doing all right, all that, but I'm not saying they're in denial, but they just haven't like completely hit rock bottom, like trying to get people transitioned into that before they hit rock bottom, maybe. I don't think people need to hit rock bottom to climb to the top. I don't think that has to happen, but I do think that creating...

27:41
always having a hard goal in front of you. I like to always have in my life, I always like to have three goals. A fitness goal, always wanna have with every six to 12 months have a new fitness goal ahead of me that I'm sort of directed towards, right? So a fitness goal, a business goal and a family goal. And so I always like to have three goals and they always change every six to 12 months in front of me that are fucking hard, that are like swing for the bleachers kind of goals.

28:09
And it's not like I'm like looking at it every week and being like, okay, how much closer am I to that goal today? It's just, hey, I've got these goals, I've got these events, I've got these things that I'm trying to do. I've got a goal for business that some people would roll their eyes at and be like, oh God, but I wanna sell my company for at least, I wanna take home $45 million at 45 years old. So I've got.

28:35
I don't know, two and a half years to do that. So that's a big goal for me. And while doing that, I want to take off 150 days a year. So if I take off every weekend, that's 104 days. I like to take three vacations with my family. And then I spend time and my wife is Danish, so I don't really consider it a vacation because they spend the whole month of August in Denmark. But I get out there for 10 days. So I take three seven day vacations. And then I spend 10 to 12 days in Denmark.

29:05
And that's 150 days a year that I am not working. And for me, that's living life, right? I don't wanna be one of these people that I have mentored, I talk to, who are in their 60s and 70s. And they're like, yeah, if I could change one thing, I'm like, what would you change? If I could change one thing, it'd be like, spend more time with my family. Spend more time with my family. That's the one thing I would change. When I hear that from these tycoons,

29:34
I'm like, I'm not going to be the guy that says that. I'm going to have a different one thing to change. I don't know what that's going to be. Maybe it's that maybe not going so hard on my body in the gym, because maybe I'll be limping later on in life because of how hard I go, but I'm, it's certainly not going to be spend more time with my family. A hundred percent. I can relate to that with father or a foe. I don't, that's the non-negotiable for me. So I won't, I will never have that regret. That's why I'm an entrepreneur control my whole time and freedom.

30:02
Chris, I've been taking over the thoughts. Michael's had me like deep in and I'm like taking over all the questions here. I love it, man. No, I'm, first of all, I appreciate your, you sharing your story and the vulnerability that, and that's, I probably followed you for about a year now. I actually had an ex-girlfriend put me onto you because similar background, man. The addiction, kind of being out there and questionable.

30:27
But I think, and I look at you as a leader in the entrepreneur space, especially in the fitness wellness space. And in general, I just don't think we talk enough about our struggles and what got us to where we're at. Some of these bigger names maybe aren't talking about their childhood and the traumas and the struggles that lead to where you are. So I appreciate that. But one thing you said that I could identify with after getting sober was you were still not.

30:56
working a job that was maybe your ideal self, right? Like you said, now your current company, Creatures of Habit, is aligned with how you live your life.

31:07
What that made me think of is people start getting healthy, say they get sober, and they immediately think, I need to go pursue this or that. And what I heard from you is you might.

31:21
have to experiment along the way until you get to that place where you're running a company that maybe is your purpose, right? Or your mission. Tell me, did you feel when you were in the restaurant business, which clearly you had success, when you were in it at that time, did you feel that want for something different or were you content in that moment? Or was there always a forward looking goal of, I want to, this isn't fulfilling me completely. Like I want something.

31:48
more aligned with my passion or my lifestyle? It's a great question. When I was running and when I was creating and running restaurant brands, it was exactly what I wanted to be doing. I loved every minute of it. What changed that trajectory for me was a few things, but the number one was starting a family. It was having kids. I...

32:18
You put me in a room anywhere from the White House to middle of nowhere, Waco, Texas. And I'm like, I'm making friends. I like I am. I feel at home in social environments. I love connecting with human beings. I think at my core, if I had to say that I had any kind of superpower, it would be the ability to connect with humans at scale, like really connect, like literally listen to people want to hear them.

32:48
and then want to help and share stories. You know, I love telling stories. And so the restaurant business gave me an opportunity to tell stories every day. Every single day I was telling stories. I was, I just, it was like my energy, my vibe. When I started having kids, the first two years of my son's life, Finley, I missed.

33:10
And I should say if there was anything I would take back, it would probably be that. It would probably be missing those early years of his life because I was not home for dinner. I wasn't. And I've been an early riser for a long time, but when I was working in restaurants late at night, I still was an early riser, but I was only sleeping like five-ish hours a night. So I probably wasn't my best self around when I was around. And it started to weigh really heavy on me. And my wife was basically like, okay.

33:40
We got a family now. I feel like I am.

33:45
alone with this child. And that doesn't feel good. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I need to change that. And I said, I just made it. I was like, boom, that's it. Not working on weekends. And I'm not working at night anymore. That's it. That's what I'm doing. And I had a partner at Seymour's at the time. And I was like, this is just what it is. I'm the founder of the company. And I'm telling you, I'll be at work from eight o'clock in the morning till five o'clock in the evening.

34:16
And if you need me for an emergency, I'll be here later, but I don't think you do. And I think that was a big moment too, for me in my career where I had been a technician in restaurants for so long, right? I'd worked for other people in restaurants for a long time. And so understanding that there is a difference of restaurant owners, right? There are people that build a restaurant to build a job for themselves. And then there are people that.

34:43
to kind of graduate into the restaurant owner position and actually own the restaurant and are able to run the restaurant from like a 30,000 feet view where they hire great people and they do not become a fixture of the restaurant. One of the greatest piece of advice that I got before I opened up my first business was from the same guy that gave me that ultimatum to change my life, this guy, Frank Prisonzano.

35:13
And he said, Mike, just do yourself a favor. Don't be a fixture in your own restaurants. Because if you think about it, if you're like a light on the wall and that light is bringing the ability for people to see in the restaurant, if you're a light on the wall and then you decide not to show up one day and that light isn't on, nobody can fucking see in the restaurant, the experience is totally different.

35:41
So don't be the light on the wall. Be the owner of the business. And I, it took me some years to understand that, but now it's very clear. Yeah. That's the restaurant business. That's almost any business in a lot of ways.

35:55
Yeah. But in the restaurant business, it's so visual that you're running around and your patrons are there and you're in a physical moment at all times. Yeah, it's also hard to write in the restaurant business because the truth of the matter is that I'm not I'm not going to I'm really good at that industry. I'm like very good. And I speak so confidently about it because I spent the majority of my life in restaurants like I know how to build a restaurant, open a restaurant and run a restaurant.

36:25
And I really know how to connect with humans in there so that their experience is like everything. I've said, there's anybody listening on the podcast that are restaurant people or thinking about being in the restaurant business or the bar business or any sort of hospitality type of business. There's four things you need. And I only and I created this four things you need in the world of hospitality as an owner about two years ago being now out of the restaurant business for a number of years. You need balls of steel. You need big fucking balls.

36:53
You've got to be able to just take a risk, take the big location on the big corner, pay the big rents. You need to have balls in order to last, in order just to stand the test of time. You need big balls. You need a lot of cash. You need to have a lot of money. You cannot go in to the world of restaurants under capitalized. You need at least a year's worth of operating cash in the bank at all times.

37:19
because things like the pandemic can happen and just wash everybody away. Now we know that. You need something for everyone. You need to have a menu that speaks to every single person. Vegan, vegetarian, only eat fish, love red meat, love vegetables, like healthy shit, like unhealthy shit. You need to have a menu that speaks to everyone. That's why diners have done so well forever. And that's why California Pizza Kitchen, Cheesecake Factory, TGI Fridays and Denny's.

37:48
have survived the test of time because there is literally something for everyone on the menu. And so you need something for everyone. And the last piece of the puzzle is the guests that come to the restaurant need to feel not just a little bit better, a hell of a lot better on the way out than they did on the way in. And those four things, if you can nail those four things, if you can nail it, you're unstoppable in the restaurant business.

38:17
Just unstoppable. There's no, that you can't, no one like those are the, those, that is the secret quadrant for success in the world of hospitality, balls of steel, lots of cash, something for everyone and make them feel like platinum, make them feel like diamonds. And, and there's a lot that goes into that, of course, but that's the success model. I love that Michael talk about, and I know

38:44
We can probably have to have a part two of this if you're so gracious, but talk a little bit as we wind down a bit about your health and fitness company, like specifics of what's going on there, what you're doing, how you're helping people, some of the products. Yeah. So I'll tell you, I'll tell you. So the brand is called Creatures of Habit with a K and it is a, it's a wellness brand. We focus on nutritional habits.

39:06
When I, and the story goes back to when I got sober, when I got sober and those two guys that I mentioned came in and winged me, they wrote a plan for me. And they were like, if you can follow this plan, chances are you're gonna be okay. And if you can follow it for a long time, you're gonna have a life beyond what you could ever imagine. And I didn't really.

39:30
believe them at the time, of course, when you're sitting in a pile of poop and someone tells you, yeah, just do these things and everything, you're gonna have everything you want in your life. I'm here to tell you they were right, for sure. But basically what that plan was, they said, we want you to wake up as early as you can in the morning. And the first thing you're gonna do as soon as you get out of your bed is you're gonna drop on your knees and pray to God and ask God for help to get you through the day sober.

39:58
And we don't care who you pray to, what you pray to, but you need to start asking for help. You don't know how to ask for help. And so if you start your day asking for help from God, chances are it'll make you more comfortable asking for help. And then you're gonna go into the bathroom, you're gonna take a piss, you're gonna brush your teeth, you're gonna wash your face, and put on a pair of running shoes. And you're gonna go out for a walk or a run, whatever it is. It could be a block, it could be 10 miles, but we want you to move your body first thing in the morning.

40:26
And then as soon as you get back from that, you're gonna eat a huge bowl of oatmeal. Big, huge bowl of oatmeal. It's easy, it's healthy, it's satiating. You can add all sorts of shit to it. And it's gonna be the first thing you put into your body every day as a way to say, okay, this is a healthy thing that I'm eating. Typically, I start my day with very unhealthy things. This is a healthy thing that I'm eating. It's easy to make. I can commit to it and I can make it taste really good. And that's where the oatmeal piece came into my life. I've been eating oatmeal as my first meal of the day every day for almost 20 years.

40:55
since I got sober. And then they said, after you eat that oatmeal, you're gonna go to a sober community meeting. And then after you leave that, you're gonna come to the gym, we're gonna kick your ass, we're gonna teach you about discipline and commitment and integrity and getting back up. We want you to feel like you can get back up after we punch you in the mouth and put you on the ground, you're gonna just get right back up and we're gonna help you out with that. And then you're gonna have lunch, which is gonna be chicken and broccoli.

41:18
and then you're gonna go home and take a nap and then you're gonna go to work and you're gonna work and you're gonna eat chicken and broccoli again for dinner and you're gonna go to bed as early as possible and then it's a rinse and repeat. And if you can stick to that kid, you'll be good. And so when I was thinking about what I was gonna do for my next business, Creatures of Habit, initially it was gonna be a restaurant and then the pandemic hit and so I had to change the whole entire business model and I'm so happy that happened, but I was on a run. I was at this point living upstate.

41:47
And I said, man, my career as I know it is over. No one's investing in the world of restaurants or brick and mortar or in real life shit anytime soon. So I've got to figure out a way to pivot. What am I gonna do? And I said, man, I didn't love stamping out restaurants anyway. I love building the brands. I love building the culture and the people and being around for that. But I didn't love dealing with landlords and managing construction crews. And that's what ultimately what my role was because I was very.

42:16
passionate about what these places looked like, where they were, and if I wanted it done the way I wanted it done, I had to be the one in charge. And so I said, I'm gonna fuckin' turn my oatmeal every morning into a business. And I just had this crazy idea, because basically that oatmeal that I was eating every day had become this amazing.

42:37
like perfect meal for an athlete. Like I should also say that I am literally an athlete. Like I became a pro bodybuilder. I'd run multiple marathons. I competed in Muay Thai kickboxing. I committed to CrossFit now to hopefully, who knows, make the CrossFit Games when I'm 45. But I'm a real athlete, so I really do care about what I put into my body. And so for years, I had been tooling around with making the best oatmeal ever. And what it really ended up being was

43:06
gluten and glyphosate free oats, 30 grams of plant-based protein that I would put into the oatmeal. I would make it with chia seeds, flax seeds, pumpkin seeds, and pink Himalayan salt. And it would take me like 25, 30 minutes to make every morning. On the side, I always had my probiotic, my digestive enzymes, my vitamin D3, and my omega-3 fatty acids. And that was like my morning supplement stack. And that was like what I did for years. And so I was like, wow, wouldn't it be crazy if I was able to put all that shit into a pouch and make it easy for people to have every day?

43:36
especially in a time like this where people aren't leaving their house and people are looking for healthy ways to eat conveniently. I got back home from that run, I told my wife what I was going to do. She thought I was absolutely out of my mind. And I put a quarter million bucks into a bank account that night and began the process and built a brand. I knew I wanted it to be a lifestyle brand like an in your face. When you think about wellness brands, you think about premium white, fucking off white.

44:02
tables and tapestries and sis and sage and like shit that guys like me don't necessarily are. I said, I want to create a brand that is the in your face. Let's get after it wellness brands. And so I did. And I created a cool line of apparel to go with it. And the first person I pitched was my buddy, Gary Vaynerchuk. And I said, I, it was like, I took a year to work on the formula, the brand and everything. And I knew Gary was the guy that I was going to, I was going to pitch to first and I pitched it to him.

44:31
On that first call, he was like, this is Kiff meets Quaker. Let's fucking go. He wrote check and we run out and we raised money. I launched the business in August of 2021. We've sold millions of dollars worth of the product is called meal one. People are really fired up about it. It's an overnight oatmeal blend. You get 30 grams of protein per serving, 35 grams of carbohydrates, 10 grams of fat, 10 grams of fiber.

44:57
It's just like the perfect meal. And then very recently we just launched a second product, which is called nightcap, which is a sleep support powder. I worked on that one for a year as well. I wanted to make it taste just like Swiss miss hot chocolate. So it's a powder. You put it into a mug, you add hot water or hot almond milk, you froth it with this little frother that we've got. And it helps you relax, fall and stay asleep naturally. And that one is really delicious. So you start with meal one, you finish with nightcap and that's the creatures system.

45:27
right now. There'll be more, but that's the business. And it's given me this opportunity to really, I stand behind this thing 1 million percent. And I'm, you know, like, I feel like back in the day, those Rogaine commercials, I'm not just the owner, I'm a customer. You know, I'm like the number one fan. I use it every single day. There's not a day that goes by that I don't have my meal one. It's like the perfect way to start my day, pre-workout, post-workout, whatever it is, if you intermittent fast.

45:54
best break fast in the game. You're getting high on your own supply. Big time, big time. Yeah, anyone who doesn't believe that shit, look at his stories and you'll see you're in the gym fucking mixing that up. Michael, we really appreciate it, man. I hope we can stay in touch, do a follow up down the road. And it's, I don't know, sometimes you hear these stories and I don't know, I get glossed over, but I was really enthralled. I know where our audience will be. And tell everybody where they can find.

46:22
all of these wonderful things and more about you. Sure, yeah, I'm at Michael Chernow pretty much everywhere. I spend most of my time on social media wise, on Instagram and on TikTok. Instagram's really like the full 360 Chernow and TikTok is really just me focusing on thought leadership and sharing just stories, talking head stuff, really me telling stories and sharing my experience in life, hopefully help people out.

46:50
If you wanna check out Creatures of Habit, it's at Creatures of Habit, it's Creatures with a K, Creatures of Habit online, on social media, on Instagram. We're across all platforms at Creatures of Habit. There's also creaturesofhabit.com is our website. And for your listeners, we've created a promo code that they can use for a 15% discount, theyk, the number 15. So theyk15, anybody that's listening that wants to try meal one or nightcap or both.

47:17
hop on and there's a 15% discount set up for you all. And yeah, that's really it. You can also check out if you're in New York and you wanna go to a great restaurant, Meatball Shop is still around and Seymours is still around. They're both still around. So they're both in New York City. They're great restaurants. Meatball Shop obviously focuses on meatballs and Seymours focuses on fish tacos and seafood. I've had those meatballs, they're good. I didn't know that was you back in the day. That shit was popping off in 2012.

47:45
Not do not end whenever that was. Yeah, that is great. Hey, Michael, we really appreciate it. Chris, any final words? Hey, I got one more question. What takes bigger balls, the restaurant business or the creatures of habit? Oh, man, they both take big balls. That's the truth. I would say I think the restaurant is I think the restaurant is because it's a people management business and that is like a very tough thing. It's really hard.

48:15
With those four things that I mentioned, that last one, the guests have to walk out happier than when they walked in. There's only one way to accomplish that. And that's with a staff of people that work in that restaurant that love what they're doing. That's the only way. And the only way to accomplish a staff of people that love what they're doing is treating them like the absolute number one priority. So like...

48:39
Traditionally in the restaurant business, the staff is like a second thought. They're not the number one. And me as a restaurant owner, my staff is always my priority, always. Because I just know that if they love what they do and if they love where they're at and there's a good culture and a community of people, a community amongst the people that work there, they're gonna make sure every guest is stoked and they're gonna know about the menu, they're gonna know the beverages and the wine and all that good stuff. If they don't like where they work, you are fucked, my friend.

49:09
They're going to steal from you every opportunity they get. Every time you turn your eyes, they're going to take something. They're going to give something away. They're going to do something that is not good. There's going to be toxicity and a cancer in the restaurant that you're not going to be able to eradicate. And you're in trouble. You're in trouble. And I think that a lot of restaurant owners don't really appreciate that or don't understand that. There's only one way to make sure that the guest is always right. And it's by making sure that the staff feels support.

49:36
Yeah, it's hard. That's a hard thing to do. Yeah. I think it takes big balls and to be anything entrepreneur, but at the restaurant. That's the truth, man. Like for anybody that has the audacity to think that an idea that they come up with is going to, is going to make other people happy at scale is going to create awesome shit for people in their lives at scale. That's you got to have that balls, man. Like you got to have balls to really go after that. Something that you came up with an idea that you have.

50:07
thinking that idea is gonna make sense and be exciting for like millions of people. There you have it. Okay, man. Hey guys, you know where to find us? The vacaypodcast.com. Something tells me if you search for big balls, it's gonna bring up this episode because it's gonna do keyword search based on show notes. And I'm gonna force Cameron to put that in the show notes. Big balls. Michael, appreciate your brother. Can't wait to continue the relationship and.

50:36
Follow along with your journey. Thanks for having me guys. Thank you guys. For Chris Hansen, I'm Ryan Alford. We'll see you next time on the VK Podcast.