Navigating the Terrain of Men’s Mental Health with Elise Micheals

00:06
and welcome to the VK podcast. I'm right off of your cohost, joined by my good friend, Mikey Masabe. My cohost, Chris Hansen, down in the hot Miami in the VK lounge. So we'd like to say, we're excited today. We had a great pre-party. We're all ready. We're all warmed up. We got Elise Michaels, Trauma Informed Mental's mental health coach. What's up, Elise? What's up, guys? Excited for you to be here.

00:36
We got off to a roaring start before we even hit record. So I think if we're getting in and laughing a bit as we get going, everyone listening, just know we were warming up the episode and. We feel good about it. So we hope we can be. Yes. We feel good. Chris is excited today. I'm excited. And Elise, how the hell are you? I'm also excited. Yes. I'm having a great time. I know.

01:05
In South Dakota, we never quite covered why we're in South Dakota. I know you're living in Florida now, but why South Dakota today? Actually, for the last four years, I was a digital nomad. So I just changed countries almost every month. And I come to my old boss's house every year for Christmas. So I've been coming here for six years. So I just stay for the month of January. And now I fully committed to a place for the first time in many years. And so, yeah, this is my.

01:34
December home. I love it. It's fast though. The digital nomad thing. I it's that that terminology hits my radar a lot more than I guess it's 2024. That's why. What's that life like? They got, I know we're going to talk about all your stuff and coaching. We're going to get down to our traditional health and wellness and all that. But I got to hear some about this digital nomad lifestyle.

02:00
It's basically what it is. You work online and you kind of like your location independence. So you don't have a commitment to anywhere and you just live wherever you want and go you're like a Vega bond. And yeah, what do you want to know about it? How long did you do it? And where did you live is what I want to know. Yeah, that those are the first two. What were you doing when you decided I'm going nomad? Cause it's Ryan's right. I have so many people talking about this.

02:24
When I first started to be a nomad, I didn't have a job. I just left LA. I lived in Los Angeles at the time and I was like, you know what, I'm not coming back. Actually had an apartment. I just rented it out to people and I said, I was going to figure it out. And I was like 23. And then I met someone not a month later who worked at a tech company online. They were already fully remote. And this was like 2017 or something like that. And six months later, I got a job at that company. And that is actually the boss that

02:54
I go to his house every year now. We both obviously don't work at that company anymore, but it just spiraled from there. So I did that for the grand total of six years, the digital nomad life two years. I didn't do it because of COVID, but yeah. So I've been to 30 countries now. I just hit 30, 30 under 30. And yeah, now I'm done. And I said, that's enough for me. And now you're ready for the sunshine, stay a little retirement life in Tampa.

03:21
Yeah, because when you have a digital nomad life, you don't really build anything. You don't build a community. You don't build lifelong friendships. It's stressful because you don't know where you're going next. You have to deal with visas. And I just said, it's time. It's time to just I'm not this 20 year old having to like budget out for a cheapest ticket I can get anymore. Like I want a nice life now and everything will be okay. So what was your favorite destination?

03:50
I have a top three. So Greece, Israel and Turkey. Were they great places to visit or great places to live? I lived in all of them for at least a month. I would say live. I loved living there. Great places to visit would be places like. I don't know, there's very few places I would never go back. I would never go back to Aruba. I thought it was a waste of time. Sorry, anybody who likes Aruba lives there.

04:18
awful place or today's podcast brought to you by Aruba touring. Oh shit. Change our vacancy. We package that. All right. Do you guys actually give away vacation to Aruba?

04:38
No, no, we have discussed doing a vacation giveaway, but Aruba was never there. It was never on the list. That's for sure. OK, I'm not a similar kind of you have. Oh, thank God. Yeah, it's not just me. I've been there once. I didn't hate it, but it did nothing. Ryan likes it because Ryan has a family and he goes there in the hotel for vacation and.

05:03
just goes on the lazy river. That's Ryan. That's Mexico. It's fun if you're a family and you just go on the vacation. Yeah. Yeah. No, it didn't do much for me even for vacation. The one time. So not hurting my feelings. Just a little bit. I feel an inside. No, not at all. The,

05:24
Although I will say the guy that does our fulfillment for vacay is from Aruba, so I don't want to rip too hard. Just cut this whole part out. Just cut it all out. No, it's all good. But I like compare. We'll move on to the core of the show here. Bear with us. Everyone listening. You want to know these things about digital nomads, but like living in Greece versus living in the U S biggest differences. What's better? What's worse?

05:53
There's so many differences, right? The culture is completely different. Obviously, if you don't speak Greek, you can't really make connections with anybody. It's very poor, right? It's like a very poor country. Like as a digital nomad, really people say, oh, I wanna live in the culture, but a lot of people are just becoming friends with other nomads. Unless you can speak the local language or unless that country speaks English for the most part, you're...

06:17
You're not connecting with the locals and living the way the locals do. You're living it as an American or as an expat in that country. You're like hanging out at the WeWork meeting other Westerners. Yeah. I just always imagine everyone at other digital nomads that are, I don't know, all staying at Airbnb together and trying to figure out their next scheme to go somewhere else. That's just what I envision. I have no idea if that- Minus Airbnb, they're usually at hostels.

06:47
Right. You go to hostels, you meet people, you go on trips and that's like the fun part of it. It's a very sporadic lifestyle. You become instant friends with people because you have no other choice and you have like very fast memories and experiences, but nothing that you can take with you into the next part of life. For the most part. So we've been doing this, but at some point we had some trauma that led to you. And I don't know if the trauma happened on the nomadting or before

07:17
but we want to make this upbeat positive and the great things you're doing for men and all the reasons people are following you. But I do think it helps ground us with a little bit of setting the table for what kind of led to your perspective, Elise. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely happened before the traveling. I grew up with a pretty dysfunctional family. I've got multiple siblings. We're all seven years apart.

07:43
All different dads. I don't know how much I want to expose my family on here. Parents in and out of, but everything was kept very much on the low and I was told not to tell anybody, obviously, because your family doesn't want anybody to know. But a lot of this inconsistency, a lot of this drama, a lot of this being left out because I was like the middle child. No one really ever looked at me, right? No one ever was really paying attention. You don't realize how much that impacts your behaviors until you grow up and things start going wrong.

08:12
because you think that you're doing everything right according to the survival mechanisms that you had, that you adopted when you grew up. And so for me, I was like a happy kid. I was used to what I grew up with, so it didn't really matter. And I was always happy until like age 25 when I had like a failed relationship that I was putting a lot of stake in. And I said, something is happening that I can't see because I'm very, I'm into self-improvement.

08:39
I read all the books, I do all the things. So what is going wrong? I need some help. I need someone else to help me. So that's when I first got into therapy and therapy was amazing, but it didn't, a year and a half later, I felt like I was still running into some of the same cycles. And so that's when I dove into studying as much as I possibly could about the brain, about relationships. So I took trauma therapy. I took neuro linguistics programming, cognitive behavioral therapy, tapping like anything that you could possibly do. I became certified in it just to fix my own stuff.

09:08
And that's when I learned that you can actually solve trauma in a very logical way. It doesn't have to take 10 years. You don't just have to talk about it. You can actually practice certain methods and strategies to help yourself understand what you're missing. The, there's a key term there that always catches my attention that we've had a few people that talk about NLP, neuro-linguistic programming. I,

09:36
I'm curious your perspective on it and. I'll always simplify it as a little bit of what you just said. You can. It's what we tell ourselves, right? It's like how we talk to ourselves, how we set up things. That's how I simplify it. I know it's more complicated than that, but I'd love for you to touch on your learnings from that and maybe how you deploy that or if you do deploy that now.

10:02
Yeah, so I got that certification a long time ago. And like I said, I have a lot of them. So I don't think that you can ever just use one thing when you're working on something, right? So in cognitive behavioral therapy and neurolinguistics, they're very similar. It is about training your brain to have a certain perspective that you want, which helps tap into the reticular activation system, which is your brain filtering information and looking for evidence to prove a certain perspective correct.

10:31
So a lot of us have certain beliefs that we grew up with, certain things that we were told to watch out for or get used to. And so we've already trained our brains just by growing up in the environment that we're in to look for certain things or to believe certain things. So practicing something like NLP or CBT helps you take control of that instead of just being a subconscious programming. I have a question. Like an example,

11:02
If I grew up watching my dad cheat on my mom or device versus say my mom, she and my dad. And then I just assume every woman I'm going to be with is going to cheat on me. Is it like that type of belief systems you're trying to change? Yeah. And any underlying things that might come from that, right? Like maybe you don't believe every woman is going to cheat on you, but maybe you have this underlying distrust of women.

11:31
Right. And so instead of just thinking no women can be trusted or they're always lying or they're always sneaking behind my back or they've always got something to hide. We train ourselves to think something different, not necessarily like I don't go all the way into the opposite of the positive. Oh, can be trusted. It's just, I trust myself to make that judgment call in the correct way. So we're starting to switch the way that we're thinking because if you just go into the world with a black and white perspective,

12:01
you're going to get that result because you're looking for it. And I was more, I feel like I've had experience dating girls who like their dad was not loyal to the mother or they've been with men who cheated on them. And there's almost this underlying, no matter how good I am or what I try to do, there's always some underlying, they're waiting for the other shoe to drop. I feel like, and that was something I feel like, and I was probably watching some of your videos where it's that's a hole that I.

12:29
I will never be able to fill because of her belief system and her experience. That is what triggered in my mind. Is that something that NLP would be useful for? Yeah. NLP plus a myriad of other things, right? You need trauma therapy, you need attachment learning. You need, but

12:52
What's curious about that is you're like, I'm with these girls who seem to maybe their dad's always cheated on them or whatever. So I always encourage the men to be like, okay, why do you always end up with those same girls? What within you is in some way feeling fulfilled by partnering with that person? What part of you feels like you need to earn love? What part of you feels like you can or you should? Right? Like these are the things that we, when we flip it around and start to question ourselves.

13:20
That's when we can really discover some things that will change our life. Follow a mirror. That's how I see it now. If something's bothering me, what is, what in me is triggered by it? And usually it's insecurity, fear, et cetera. And I love the example you just gave too, because sorry, if you don't want to dive into this too much, but when we look at that aspect of like, why am I partnering with this woman and you talked about how she maybe saw her dad cheat on the mom or whatever.

13:49
But you can analyze your own. Like, where did I get this from? What did I see my parents do? How did they love each other? How did they love me? Or how, where was the lack of love for me that I became used to? So it's not that I consciously saw a big event. Like maybe mom and dad didn't cheat on each other, but maybe they just weren't affectionate at all. Maybe dad like ignored my mom every time she came home from work. I'm super used to that being normal when somebody ignores me when I come home from work.

14:15
You don't register it, but it's so subconscious and it feels so normal to your nervous system that you accept this treatment that you don't even like. And now you have this subconscious resentment against your partner and you can't even pinpoint it. You just say, I feel like I'm being disrespected. You're right. Cause if someone were to ask me, how was my childhood? I didn't get beat, I didn't get abused. But when you dive a little deeper, like everything you just said, and I'm not gonna put my parents on blast to great people.

14:45
But it definitely, you start to look a little bit more. And I think we can all acknowledge it. Everyone has shit. Everyone has skeletons. Everyone has things to work on. Okay, interesting. Yeah. Elise, I love to ask people like yourself that you've gone through trauma. You're now heavily trained. You've gone through a lot of training. You've also gone through recovery. All those are the things that you've talked about.

15:12
I'm always fascinated in the nature versus nurture discussion. Fundamentally, having gone through what you've gone through, do you believe that people are made a certain way or created a certain way? Are they born with, we're all born with DNA and tendencies, but it's almost like fundamentally, and it's not like the good, bad discussion, our murderers born murder. I don't know that any of us have the pay grade. Maybe just go down that path.

15:41
But just have you netted out anywhere where do you think we're born a certain way or we're made to be a certain way?

15:52
I think everybody chooses how they want to become because everybody is born with different sets of circumstances. Yet there is an example for everyone with the worst set of circumstances doing the most amazing thing. Why is someone who is a paraplegic able to compete in the Olympics and you can't lose five pounds when you're fully functional, right? Like you can't just say, oh, it's my DNA. That's crazy. Right. Yes. DNA plays a part and maybe I will get a lot of hate for this, but

16:21
There's so many examples and so many proofs for us to still be using DNA as an excuse. You can change your DNA. It just gives you the baseline. It doesn't give you every single decision and option. Like we have free will. We have the ability, the capability to change and choose. Yep. I like that answer.

16:42
I didn't know if I was going to like her. I tried not to. I knew you would. I knew you would like that one. There's no excuse really. I'm not supposed to be here. I grew up in a small town in Wisconsin. I told everybody I was going to be a rich and famous singer and actress in Hollywood. And it's not like nobody didn't, I only had one person who didn't believe me. I'm sure nobody else cared, but I didn't have a setup for that. I was the person who was getting food dropped off at their door for Christmas. I was just thinking about this morning, but I never felt.

17:10
I never felt like that was me. Like I didn't adopt any of that mentality. I grew up with alcoholics. Like I never drank anything till I was 27 years old. And so, no, we get a choice. I didn't like, you get a choice to choose and people say it's not that easy. It's a lot harder living and supporting your limitations than it is to just do something different. Yes.

17:32
Wait a second. You're not that least singer. I thought you were that popular at least. Oh, man. Oh, OK. And they're an elite singer. It's got to be right. That name is too sultry to be not be a famous singer somewhere. Right. You could have been anything, Elise. Right. Are you a singer, though? Are you can you sing? I don't know about that. Listen, I went there and I said, I don't know if I really want this anymore. So.

18:00
Now I have a social media following that's almost a million. And that was me in my mind. Okay. Like I actually am doing something that I said I was going to do because this will transpire into my own TV show and getting in that industry. Anyway, I just figured it out in a different way than I thought. But singing, I don't know. You can do it all. You can talk yourself. You can NLP your what you can talk yourself into anything. But your way exactly. So why man?

18:30
Go ahead, Ryan. No, why men? We're now coaching men regularly. You know what led down the men? Why do you want to help us men? Yes. Why do you want to help us? Us a sloppy old, disgusting, toxic men. That's so funny that you would say that. I actually didn't want to coach men. I was trying to coach women. I actually started my business on LinkedIn by posting video content and men were the only ones who reached out to me. At first I was like really weirded out and I was like,

19:00
How do I don't know how to help you. You're like X amount more successful than me. You're twice my age. Like I really didn't know. But then I just said to myself, okay, your whole thing is helping people work through their pain. So why don't you just try it out? And so once I did, I realized that men really didn't have like any support and definitely not as much support as women. So that's when I said, you know what? Women have enough support. I'll just.

19:24
I will be this person for men. And I was like freaking out at first because I didn't know how it would look. Cause it was years ago, right before this became a fad. And it was like the best decision I've ever done in my life. I opened my eyes to how men operate and the things that they go through. And yeah, it's been the best thing ever. I wonder what that is. We appreciate you. Yeah, no, I'm very, that's why we have you on the show. Like it's refreshing for a man to feel. And I think, I'm sure on some level, if I was you, like,

19:54
You fear like the surface level thing, but however it gets them in the door, if ultimately you can help them, that's all that really matters. Maybe it was a surface level, you're a pretty woman. It's it might be have started that way, but once you've got the substance, which you have, I think then it becomes there. Men are probably attracted to the confidence and the knowledge and okay, this is someone that really knows what they're talking about. I'm sure you've had to break down those barriers.

20:24
I actually never thought about it like that because when I first started out, I just posted whatever videos I would be like running outside. This was during the pandemic that I started my business. So gyms weren't open. So I'd be like in my workout clothes and I would post a video like I

20:41
I don't wanna say I only started taking care of myself once this took off. I've always taken care of it. As you get older, you learn how to dress better and stuff. So I don't know, I never ever, maybe I'm just opposite, but I never have thought because I'm a woman, I don't get as many opportunities. I've never thought people only like me for my looks. I just do the work and see the results follow. That's all I focus on. Yeah, but it helps that you know what you're talking about and that you've built a following clearly from knowledge. Talk to me.

21:09
What are the foundational ways that you help men and what are some of your approaches, beliefs, those kinds of things that make up the core of what you do?

21:20
What I see men struggle with a lot is relationships. And the reason they struggle a lot with relationships is because of their connection to themselves and their understanding of what they're actually going through, what they actually want, what they actually need, and how to express that to their partner. Because if they don't understand it for themselves, how could they possibly understand what their partner is asking for? Because women are very emotional, men are very logical. So when a woman is going through an emotional problem and he's trying to solve it logically, they're in a disconnect. It's like they're speaking different languages.

21:49
So I help him understand a different language than he's so used to, so that the relationship is a lot smoother. So that his connection to himself and what he actually wants is a lot smoother. So then he can also stop being attracted to the wrong people and he can also stop accepting excuses from himself because of his past or whatever it is. Yeah, that's, it's so funny. Here you talk like.

22:15
I have conversations, my wife and I are, I think we're both pretty intelligent people, at least we think we are. That's all that matters. Right. The, but yet when I have any struggle with my wife, it's because I know in the moment she's being emotional and I'm being logical and like, we're both self aware of it, but it doesn't change the struggle. So I always, how do you counsel men to get by that?

22:42
You have to learn how to understand what's going on within you at the same time. And the thing is, for men, it's a lot easier to be in this situation than you make it out to be, because you're saying they're like, I don't want to see my partner in pain or I don't want to see them upset or it's annoying. And you just want to fix it so that you get it over with. But for a woman to have an emotional moment, she doesn't want to just get it over with. She wants to have that moment. And so for you to just not.

23:08
think about fixing it or not think about solving it or getting it over with and just being in that moment with her will solve that issue already. If you just don't do anything likely to be a much better outcome than what you're trying to do now is, Oh, let me help you with this. Or have you tried this? And she says, I freaking tried that. What do you mean? Of course I did. And I just want you to listen to me. You're like, I am listening. What do you think I'm doing? I'm giving you a suggestion. And then it's just a fight, right? Yes.

23:35
Bingo. Bingo. Guilty is charged. Yeah, I'm like, I am the fix it. I'm like, wait, did you know black and white like total? But that's not the solution. It's not right. Because your partner is capable of figuring out their own solutions. That's why you married them. They're not a box of rocks. They can figure it out. They just want you to feel what they're feeling in that moment so that they feel heard.

24:04
feeling hurt is just revalidate what she's saying, right? If she's saying, I felt hurt because Becky said this about me and she's so crazy and she's overreacting and you might be like, are you sure she's overreacting? Because blah, blah, no, she doesn't wanna hear that. She wants you on her side. No, I'm gonna go, that bitch is crazy. You need, that bitch is crazy. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. We hate Becky. Or hey, I can, or she's complaining about you. Hey, when you take, when you don't take the trash out, it really stresses me out. And you're like, dude, I was gonna take it out. You just yelled at me beforehand.

24:33
She's not trying to attack you. She's just expressing that she feels hurt by it. And she doesn't feel like you care about or consider her wants and needs. You just have to say, okay, you're right, I'm sorry. I should have taken it out. If I, I understand that you're upset right now or it's not like you have to cave in everything. So me responding with, I'll put it on the list of today's complaints is not the best answer. Probably not. That's usually what I say.

25:01
I have to file a complaint at the door. Today's good stuff. Yes. No, I'm usually not that bad about it. Some days in the mood, I'm in the. So a lot of relationship coaching, I'm assuming. There's a lot of that goes. They usually come in for relationships, but it goes deeper, right? Because I'm not just trying to fix a surface level problem. It goes back to, like you said, the childhood trauma. OK, tell me about your relationship with your parents and how did they love each other? And what was your role?

25:30
growing up. And so it's fixing various behavioral patterns created from that so that we can respond differently in relationships. Yeah. That's what I always wonder. Once you get people talking about those things or in men in general, is it, it's beyond just the recognition of, okay, this happened. There's steps beyond that. And I said, I guess that's what you just mentioned, like pattern behavior and like pausing before making decisions because you've

26:00
You've uncovered this trauma or uncovered these things and now you're aware of it. But now changing decisions that you make is that, am I hearing you correctly? And with that, we do something called self-regulation, which is understanding that just as the mind keeps memory, so does the body and trauma is stored in the body. So in order to reprogram a behavior pattern, you have to readapt your body to get used to that new habit as well.

26:28
because your body actually tells your brain how to feel and what to do next. Sometimes it's a habit. All things are habits, right? Feelings are even habits sometimes. So in order to actually change a habit or change a pattern, we have to get the body to work with the brain. Yeah. My brain and body don't always work together. How about you Chris? Body keeps score. Yeah. It's a popular book. I haven't read it, but I'm

26:55
I think it's all about that, right? How your body stores and holds trauma. The body keeps score. Have you heard of that book? The body keeps the score. It's actually, it's like a very academic book. It's very in-depth. I wouldn't actually recommend that for people just first learning about trauma in the body, but for people who are definitely experienced. Yeah. It's like, it's a great read. Is the analogy there that what the brain does, the body, like whether it's eating, whether it's whatever the body is taking the toll.

27:24
Is that the notion or am I reading underneath that too far? Yeah, that's like a different concept of it for sure. That's a new concept. Maybe that's a book for me. Ha ha ha. Write that book. I got a question. Those damn gummy bears. At least is there like a common, like what are you seeing men come to for? What is some common stuff or themes that you're seeing with what men are struggling with?

27:52
Well, they struggle with relationships and feeling like unfulfilled and unappreciated, but also in their own lives to get to the next step. They've worked so hard for years, even decades to get to a goal and they either feel like they've achieved it and now they just feel like they don't know where to go next. So there's really not a sense of self. There's not a sense of purpose. There's no real mission. And it's just like, where do I go next? And that's what we help them build out as well. What are some of the more controversial

28:21
positions maybe that you hold or that maybe you get the most feedback on. I think being a strong woman and maybe in some way, I don't know if you're defending men, but you definitely would by working with men and helping men, it can come across that way. What are the polarizing things that, that maybe you come across or positions that you hold?

28:47
from the audience or just like from my own perspective? Just your own perspective and things that maybe become a lightning rod. Are there beliefs or core things in the way you approach or talk about some of your techniques that you see become more lightning rod than others?

29:05
I wouldn't necessarily say in my approach because I'm not in my work, like on my social media, I'm not like shooting down any type of gender while I'm building one up. I see a lot of people get famous for that. Like you see the perils and stuff and they're like, women aren't good wives. And I'm not doing any of that because we're here to, I'm here to build people up and to help them embrace responsibility for themselves, not to tear anyone else down. I don't believe in that. But working with men.

29:33
over the last few years has changed my perspective on how I want to operate in a relationship and has completely changed my perspective on male and female dynamics in a very interesting way. Let's go down that road. Let's do that. Yeah, that sounds like a good one. Because I would like to know, I think it's enlightening for people to understand maybe I'm always like, like in marketing, we're always trying to take someone from position A to position B. Like this is their perspective now. We're trying to make their perspective here. Like when you're trying to sell something.

30:02
But for you in that same regard, like where were you and where are you now? What was the change and our beliefs or whatever? Okay. This'll probably ruffle like a lot of feathers, but I used to be, I used to be totally like a 50 50 girl. I want my own business. I want to build with someone. And I feel so bad for saying this as I started coaching men, my coaching is not a cheap coaching package.

30:31
I work with the top of the top and what I started to see is patterns from these very successful men, what I thought would impress them, like my business acumen, a skillset that I had, like making my own money. I actually realized does not impress those men at all and that they don't care at all about that. And that if I wanted someone who wanted to be just as successful as me, or if I wanted a man who really wanted to take care of his woman.

31:01
Like I didn't need to be 50 50 and I thought that was like the best way to go. But as I started seeing so much more material on it, it was like. I had such a denial in myself of if I let a man take care of me, then I'm going to be destitute or I'm going to get screwed over. And what I really started to realize was that maybe that was embedded from, I don't know, the feminist movement or society. And I felt ashamed to say I wanted a man to take care of me.

31:29
But once I started to lean into that, it just felt so much better to just say, dude, actually, I don't wanna be doing this forever. I don't wanna be like, I feel very much in my masculine every day because I'm running a business and I love running a business. I love talking about business, but I don't wanna be doing this by myself for the rest of my life. I wanna partner and I don't wanna be 50-50. Like I've done it and it's not a good experience. I just have to say.

31:53
It was not a good experience. I didn't felt taken care of. I didn't feel appreciated. I didn't feel like any of that. And I felt like I was giving everything. So it has changed my way. I went from being this 50 50 girl to going back to saying, Hey, actually I think a traditional way is better. There's some things that are traditional in old school. They probably never made sense. And then there's stuff like, okay, men are providers. Men are do things like that are as old as like cavemen.

32:23
Like it's doesn't make it bad. And look, I have a wife that works full time. She didn't have to, but she does. And I'm cool with that. But so I'm comfortable on either side of it, but to deny that on some instinctual level, a man providing for his family and a lot of is like to counsel or coach her to think that's a bad thing, I think has become very toxic and ridiculous. And that's the thing too, is I don't ever want to stop working and just be lazy and be like, ah.

32:52
buy everything for me and whatever. But it's like the idea of like, where did the care and compassion for each other go? Because maybe you don't agree with the old traditional ways of the woman cooks for the man and the man like provides financially, but there was an exchange of care that went into that. And I think that's what we're missing from today. There's no exchange of actual care. Oh, I consider you as you're going to work. Are you gonna be hungry? Or do you need me to help with this?

33:17
certain task at home, like the care is gone and now it's just so transactional and it feels very stiff and just so unwarm. That's an insight right there. That that's the juicy part right there. The lack of care. Yeah. It's all me and what can I get and what can you do for me? And on both sides, like it's so polar. And you can't say one side is better than the other because the women are doing it to the men.

33:44
Oh, if he just wants to go on a coffee date or he doesn't want to pay for you or just get that bag. Like I see a lot of that. And then the men are like, Oh, you better make sure she pays 50% on the date or pumper and dumper. That's all women are good for anymore. Like we don't, all they do is drain you and drain your pockets. And it's, it's so crazy. It's so crazy. So much toxicity on both sides. Cause I've been like, I think I'm pretty healthy, but I've seen like the coffee date where, Oh, that's low effort.

34:13
or it's just so crazy now. And I think you said earlier, there's a lot of loud voices out there that aren't giving good advice. They're giving a divisive message that's not going to help anybody. Right. That just gets them attention because people want to play victim. Yeah. I love what you're saying. I agree with it. But so show is chivalry dead. It's not dead because I'm chivalrous.

34:40
But I think a lot of people resist it because I think a lot of men like, and this is why I love working with men because they are so caring and considerate and men want to love women. If you're heterosexual, right? If you're a man, whatever you want to love a man, but for the most part.

34:56
Men, they want to spoil women. They want to take care of their woman. It's what you get pride from. If you're a natural provider, you have this instinct of, wow, I have so much pride that I can actually take care of this person. I can help them look good and feel good. And that's my person, but they're resistant and they hold back because it's this fear thing of, what if she just uses me for money? What if she doesn't appreciate me? What if she doesn't care about me? And she's got a stuck up attitude. And so then women feel that coldness from the man. And then they go into their masculine. Okay.

35:25
He doesn't have a warm, caring provider mindset. So I'm just gonna be in my masculine and then I'm gonna tell him what to do because if he wants me to wear the pants, I'm gonna wear them. And it's polarizing, polarizing, and everybody's throwing punches and it's just like, something needs to change. Yeah. Yeah, what has to change? More education, more, I don't know. I think there's gotta be a line in the sand at some point. Like you said, NLP, we have to stop assuming.

35:54
that everything that we see from society or on social media is the pure truth. When you go and you have to accept responsibility for yourself, because if you're a man who wants to take care of a woman, you have to approach these dates in that energy, but before you go on the date, understand what kind of character the woman has a lot of men. And I don't want to put a bad taste in your mouth, but you'll, I think this is true.

36:20
Many men that I talked to the first thing that you go for, and usually the only thing you look for is she hot? Is she pretty? We're attracted, but we don't go much further beyond that. Most of us. And so you need to go a little bit further. What kind of character of a woman? And it's not just, oh, is she willing to pay the bills? It's like, how does she perceive men? Is she, what kind of role does she want to play? And be a little bit more objective about it.

36:44
And then you will have a good success. And people are so afraid of that because they're like, then I'm just narrowing down my options or, but you don't have that many options to begin with. Like you're not trying to marry the whole world. You're just looking for one person. Don't waste your time by going out on dates with people you know aren't gonna be a good fit. Yeah, Chris. I'm good about that. I actually, at least I have a coach who is a woman.

37:14
that I've worked with for maybe a year and a half on and off. We actually used to work together. And she told me, and I've been told this for years, write down on a piece of paper, you're a dream woman, write down exactly what you want, what you're looking for and stick to that. And I'm much better than I was when I was young, guys. We could age and evolve. When he was younger, he would draw pictures. Now he writes a list. Obviously being in Miami, there's plenty of beautiful women down here in Miami,

37:45
That's all external. And I don't drink, I don't party. A lot of that has changed what I'm looking forward to. But everything you said, I think about, does she actually like me? Is it because I have nice things and I have some success? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think I'm at a point now where I trust myself and I've done a lot of work where I can pick out the people that maybe are not coming at me for the right reasons. And

38:14
Maybe when I was 22, I would have still said, screw it up, she's hot. I'm gonna go out with her anyway. Now I'm like, no, save that energy, save the heartbreak. Cause we're not gonna align. It's just gonna create chaos. I do think you're right, men especially. Raise your fucking standards. There's a lot of hot women. And even that mindset is, if you think, oh, I need to get, that's scarcity even too. There's an abundance of beautiful, great women in the world. You know, to me, power is...

38:44
you can go get women and choosing not to in selective with who you're going to show your time. I think there's a lot of this red pill, like, date all these girls. And I'm a fan of Andrew Tate, some of what they're putting out. Now, honestly, some of those guys live across the street from me, part of that group. And it's funny, it sounds cool to the 21 year olds, but you're not going to be building a multimillion dollar business or doing what me and Ryan do.

39:13
and having six girls on the side and a wife. That's good luck. Yeah. Nope. Yeah, and you're not, so I love, love, love that you brought that up, because this might also be controversial, but I posted a video about this not long ago either. Is that with that society, yeah, okay, some of the stuff that they say is good, like Andrew Tate, when he's like, when you're in depression, like you gotta get up and you gotta work out whatever like- Escape the matrix, exercise. Things like that, okay, like it's good to boost you up, but like some of these dudes, they sit in this-

39:40
podcasting room and they get this only fans girls and then they just rag on women and talk about how they're all whores and whatever and how men can cheat but women can and how men can have tons of partners but women can't and it's I don't like we are training men to also become very low value individuals because like you just said the power of a man is not that he gets everybody it's the fact that he actually decides and decifers who he wants to spend his time with.

40:08
Everybody wants someone who has a lot of options. Everybody wants someone who is highly desirable, but nobody wants someone who's open to the whole world. Okay. As much as men think that women want a man who has a lot of experience or whatever they say. And generally people want someone who is similar to them. Let's just go with that. And if a man wants a virgin, she's not going to want someone who's gone through the whole town.

40:35
It's just not how it works. Like you, it's not the same core value base. So like we're teaching men that they should prostitute themselves out to any woman. And it's just like, meanwhile, those men don't have a purpose, a mission, a passion. They're not decisive. They're not committed. When you just train men that they should sleep with every woman that they see, like you're teaching them to be so immediate gratification and they're not taking care of their health, their sexual health. They're not

41:02
It's like such a low vibration. And we're amping men up to say, this is, that is your mentor. That's who you should look up to. And they're gonna die alone and lonely. Like the women who want that guy as a wife are the women who are the ultimate gold diggers. They see that dude and they say, he's my ticket out. All those people you're, and I know who you're referring to, these type of shows, right? I just don't remember their names, to be honest. I don't know their names.

41:31
I look at a lot of those shows where I'm like, who in that whole room has anything I want? None of them. The girls or guys. Oh, I think the podcast is called like fitness something. Fresh and fit. That's what it's called. I don't know any of their names, but I know that they do these round tables of just foolery. It's just, it's more divisiveness, right? It's everything that's not going to get us anywhere. And also it's like me going in a strip club and be like, you guys are hos. It's a strip club.

42:01
And I've, I'm embarrassed to say I've been on some shows like this. And I remember they pulled up, I'm sitting across from a 19 year old girl goes to university in Miami and they pull up her page, her Instagram, Chris, would you wife this? And I'm like, dude, I'm 34. She's 19. Like this girl's having the time of her life as a freshman in college. We're not shopping in the same store, right? Who am I to judge this girl on? She's going to go on her journey and figure out what she needs to figure out.

42:30
It might be painful, but like I'm not her dad. And also I'm pretty sure in the history of mankind, you can tell people all day what you think they should do. Ultimately, people are gonna do what they wanna do. And really what they probably need to do to evolve. But I think that whole red pill, very divisive is also dying out. And I think you have more people look, all right, great, we all know there's problems. And now you have people like you bringing actual solutions and cohesiveness.

42:58
So hopefully we can carry on as a society and not die out because none of us can get along anymore. Yeah, and I love that you brought that up. I would love to ask you guys both what you think about that whole thing about the age gap, right? Where you're like, I'm 34 and this girl's 19, but you also hear a lot in the red pill community, oh, go for the 19 year olds, the 20 year olds, because after 26, a woman's value dies down. I wanna know what you guys think about that. I'm the married man. I'm 46.

43:29
So you're 46. You must be doing that. He's doing the med spa. No good job, Ryan. No, no medicine, no meds over here. It's all natural. Just like vacay, our official sponsor, VA Y C A Y the only way to spell vacay. Look, my wife's 40. So 40, 46, my 20 year age gap. I, I, six years. Look at my wife and I are very compatible.

43:57
And so I can only speak from them with one woman for 10 years. We've been together 10 years, my second marriage. And I don't I'm a firm believer that. You can be 20 years apart if you're on the same wavelength. But I also think there's a lack of perspective and it's hard to be on the same wavelength to have that distance. I also think that. Value can be had at all.

44:27
times in life and there's no, I don't know if they're, the experience that my wife has and who she is as a person at her age and what she's gone through and what that means to me has a whole lot more value than some lifespan. So I don't know. I may be the wrong person to ask, but my perspective is I'm a one woman man. So you wouldn't just leave your wife if some 26 year old were available to you.

44:56
No, absolutely not. Hell no. Hell no. I can answer that for you. I know that. Yes. No, I'm I'm. So it doesn't mean our marriage is perfect, but I would absolutely like she would have to do something that I know is not in her character to ever. We'd have to be divorced for a very good reason for me to consider someone else. But there'd be no trade ups, trade downs, whatever, if that's the question.

45:25
I've dated girls older, younger. I know part of me wants to go chase a 19 year old, like at all. Cause again, I'm not living a 19 year old life. If anything, I'm not even living a normal 34 year old life. I'm not in the clubs, doing all the partying. I don't like, I'm not very aligned with many 19 year olds. Probably like Ryan said.

45:53
You can be on the same wavelength, sure. But I think of stupid stuff. The movies we're into are gonna be completely different. The music that was important to me or nostalgic for me, you're not even gonna know what it is. Parts of, we're growing up in completely different worlds to a degree almost. We grew up, everyone on this call, either pre or in the beginning of internet, right? A 19 year old has only grown up in that world. It's just a different.

46:22
the different mentality, different mindset, never say never, right? That's like the other thing they say is don't date women with kids. I've went out with plenty of women with kids and there's nothing wrong with that either. I mean, if I am brutally honest, if I were to pick the love of my life and the girl I'm gonna be with, do I want her to have a kid already? Probably not, but I also know God in my life, if I start saying I don't want a girl with kids, the love of my life is gonna be a girl with a kid.

46:48
Just to be like, oh, you thought you knew what was best for you, but here's a curve ball for you to show you what life's really about. You know what I mean? I just think, like you said, nothing is black and white. But ideally, I would not want to go date a 19 year old girl. I just think with what I'm trying to accomplish and the wavelength I'm at, it would have to be a very unique person. And they're out there, but. Yeah, I wouldn't even be shopping on that. If like, if I, you know, something happened, I became single tomorrow. I would be.

47:16
shopping in that territory. I think from 19 to 34 is so much growth as a person. Yeah, we're running like 40 to 46, whatever. Yeah, even 36. I think 10 years is fine. But look, I'm not saying if I'm progressive enough, I'm a progressive guy. Like, I'm not saying that if I was single tomorrow, that it couldn't be a 28. I never say never.

47:43
But I have 28 is so different. I think that the main problem that people have is not the age gap itself, because when you're 60 and someone's 40, who cares? Right? Like you're so much into adulthood, like you've chosen your life paths. A lot of big decisions have already been made, but when someone is 19 and potentially still in high school or just got out of high school and people are saying, Hey, the older guys go and get these young girls. A lot of what people are upset about is the

48:12
is that they're just targeting young women so that they can be impressionable and groomed. And I love you guys. You could roll up to any 19 year old and be like, Oh, I'm the man. And you're really not shit, but you're just an older guy who might have a little bit more. And that's the thing. And as mature as you think you are at 19, you just are not like you are, but you don't have the life experience to know what type of people are out there. And I grew up in Wisconsin and Wisconsin in my small town.

48:41
You don't date around. If you like someone and you date them, you don't. You're not dating multiple. You're dating one person so that you can be in a relationship with them to get married. Your thought process isn't, oh, I'm going to date them for a few years and then break up. You're you stick with that person. Like when I moved to California when I was 18, in my mind, I'm like, if I started dating someone, I thought we were heading into a relationship. I was single for five years, single and celibate for five years when I was out there because.

49:10
It just wasn't the way that I was brought up to. I was confused by all that. I've lost my train of thought. But anyway, like when you're talking about you might date a 28 year old and something happened tomorrow and you're 46, okay. 28 is a lot different than 19 or 20 or 23. Like somebody has to be old enough to like make an adult decision. Like a true adult decision, not just a legal adult decision. Yes, agreed. But I wouldn't, I don't know. I think the bottom line is

49:40
I think social media needs more voices like Chris and I's. It is for a man perspective. This is the new red, but we're the blue pill table right now. They started a new movement. Yeah. And so I don't know. I think I think there's just some core values and some. I don't know, realignment that needs to happen with.

50:05
men in general and it's women too. But I mean, I can't speak for women. I can speak for men because I am one, but I, the more we talk about this, the more I listen to it. I'm like, okay, I need to talk about this more. The same dude, it's firing me up because even, I think what you just said that triggered me is with men. And at least you said it earlier, find your purpose and your mission. And it's not to go sleep with women.

50:32
That's never gonna be like, oh, I'm fulfilled now, at least for me, right? That is, and maybe like you've said too, society, culture, what we've been pushed and programmed in is so sexualized and this short-term lust where...

50:50
I don't like sex is the last, the least beneficial thing a woman can offer me. Because any woman can offer that. It's like, why are we making that some big or the girl being hot? Yeah, I want you to be attractive. I want to be attracted to you, but who are you? And who are you gonna be like if I'm sick or my business goes through a rough patch. That's where it's, do you have it in you to hold me down emotionally, spiritually is more.

51:17
But I need even what you said, the financial, I could give two shits how much money a new girl I date makes. As long as she's working at something. I don't care if you want to be the best painter, barista, auto mechanic, whatever. But I think it's getting back to self-awareness. What do you want? What actually makes you happy? Because when I was 22 in college, I thought I wanted a boss chick, girl that makes a ton of money. And I dated that and I was like, oh, this.

51:47
It's not good. That's what it happens. No, and you nailed it. I and Ryan can tell you this for me, but I get care about a girl. If you're cooking or you're cleaning or doing laundry or rubbing my back, those are the little things like I'm not going to, I'm fine with paying for your dinner, but all that other stuff that I can't get elsewhere is what's important to me. I saw a video last week of some guy videoing a girl on a date telling her where you need to go 50 50.

52:17
And the guy's thinking he looks cool. And he looks like a coward. He's like, you had an appetizer that I didn't eat. Oh yeah, I saw that. You had Applebee's, cover the 9.99 for the fucking quesadilla. Break. It's a really, I'm glad I'm not in that feed. And that's the thing, it's not about, that's the thing is it's not about the money when we talking about paying for the date or something. It's just the thought of them wanting to appreciate you and take care of you in that moment.

52:47
right? And not like penny pinching, because it just shows so much of what will happen during the rest of the relationship. Like I've seen horror stories about women getting into these relationships. And then when they give birth, like I saw one where the woman gave birth and the husband wanted her to pay for her medical bill at the hospital because she got an epidural and she didn't just push through the pain of the childbirth. Well, she wasn't working because she was pregnant. They want a Mercedes for the push present.

53:16
The other flip of that. It's like the expectation. If you're a woman at that point, bring in the divorce papers with the birth certificate. Dude, like that is a weirdo. But that's the thing. So that's like the scary part is I can totally understand, like you just said, the extremeness of the woman wanting more and more. But I think there's ways that men and women can understand that before they even get to the date scenario, what type of person the other is, without putting in all these tricks.

53:44
Like I also saw this other one where this guy told his partner that they were going on like a one mile hike and it ended up being 10 miles because he wanted to see what she was like under pressure or stress. And then they got married, but so many accounts were like, dude, like you wouldn't tell someone that, like it takes up all their day and then they don't have enough water or sunscreen. So it's just, I would rather someone be honest with me about what their thoughts are about things upfront than just put a trick in there.

54:11
decide what you want, decide who you want to be with and ask them questions beforehand so you don't get put in that scenario so that when you go on a date, you feel comfortable paying that she's going to be soft and receptive and feminine. And I think you're not going to get a girl in their feminine energy by telling her to pull out their credit card and pay half of the dinner. Yo, immediately masculine hands are coming out. Yeah, man hands, the man hands come out. Yeah, or no, grab that check. Okay. All right, bro.

54:41
I think people have gotten so lame themselves that they can't just go on some dates, be themselves. They don't have enough substance that they can't figure out if it's good or bad or whatever. And so they have to set up these tricks and all this bullshit because they themselves don't have it in them. They don't have enough substance to just be normal. Or what, or maybe normal is so bad.

55:10
that they can't do it, you know, like that they think they have to set this shit up. I just can't imagine like not having the confidence in yourself to go take someone out. I mean, everything's changed so quick and so fast again, I haven't dated in 10 years. So, but it's, I can't even imagine. I think about when you were down here, like you see all these guys written Lambos and exotics and stuff, right? Yeah. And I know guys like, cause I'll rent out one of my cars sometimes. All right. You're taking a girl on a date, but what about the second date? You're just going to.

55:40
Rent one every time and sell this fake, fake image. Yeah. She's going for you for that, homie. You don't want her. No, ain't the girl for you. Yeah. Or just get creative and do something romantic. I mean, like, just care a little bit. And I think that's also what women are talking about, too, is it's once again, the coffee date, it's OK, it's just something you can just pull out of your butt. If you actually are trying to get to know someone, maybe ask them a few things that they like and if they like.

56:10
concerts or they're like whatever, like you can even do something that is free. Like Miami hosts a lot of outdoor concerts like Miami beach does. And like you find, Oh, Hey, I saw you like this band. They're actually playing that night. Do you want to go and getting like one of their favorite snacks before? That's care. That's consideration. It takes a little bit of extra time to plan that out. I will say to push back on that. I'm busy as shit.

56:37
I don't even usually have three hours on a weekend. I've been on it where I've invited a girl to a coffee date and then leave me on red and then Friday night rolls around and I'm getting hit up. Cause now it's dinner time and someone wants to go eat filet mignon. So it's like, where is the balance where it's also dude, I'm a dude that's making moves doing stuff. So at what point does a woman lower your expectations to meet me where I'm at while I'm building? Cause I feel like

57:05
I'm not going to take some random girl I don't know out for a $400 dinner and a steak when I can carry a conversation. Anyone's going to enjoy a dinner with me. Ryan can tell you I'll talk to a wall, but it's, I don't know you. Why don't you just call them on the phone first? What happened to having a conversation? Oh, that, that's a point, right? Like why, why do we have to go out on a date? The first time we talked to someone or meet them. That's so crazy. I'm not wasting my time doing that.

57:32
What did you think of that list that went viral that women made that said, these are all the horrible ideas for like Coco Beauty, which I understand it was like inviting you to Netflix and chill. Obviously that's inappropriate, but there was cheesecake factory, all these popular restaurants. What was your take on that? There was literally a hundred things. These are horrible for a first date. Yeah. I actually commented on that post and I said something like, what do you expect people to do because you listed like everything, right?

58:02
Literally. And I was like, what do you expect people to do? I wouldn't go to Cheesecake Factory or something like that, but that's just because that's not where I'm at in my life anymore. But I used to go on those dates all the time when I was there. Who cares? Like wherever you're at, do that thing. Like everybody's at different levels and different stages. You have to find what works for you. And what I was saying before is not that you have to. I don't know why you went off into that digression of I'm busy as shit and I don't I can't go to a $400 filet mignon dinner. I said.

58:31
look into something deeper than a coffee date. Oh, it could be free. It's usually like, but then, then who's to say you have time to date anyone if you don't have the time to actually put in a little bit of extra effort to go on a date with somebody who could be a potential partner. Why should they give you the effort to with you while you're building? If you're not going to make the extra time for them, that was the craziest thing I've heard ever. Because

58:57
concert's not like a quick thing either. Right? Okay. I'm busy building. If you work 30 hours a week, you have plenty of free time. And that's where their needs are getting paid. Then you're giving the leadership over to her. No, the point is like respect what I'm doing. If you want to meet me, you should make the time and accept whatever is being offered. But why should they respect what you're doing if they don't even know you? Because if I'm, if you want to go out with me and you want me to ask you out, isn't that like

59:27
The win isn't ultimately to meet, not because they don't know you, they don't know you. And if you're trying to be the leader and the one who's going after something, you have to show them first that you care at least a little bit. So when inviting a girl to coffee show that I'm interested. Yeah, why not? Why would you act? Why are you going to act cold? This is the crazy thing that social media is. That's my point is I've invited girls to coffee and they leave me on read and then we'll ask to go to dinner a week later.

59:56
but then those aren't your girls. Or maybe they want something a little bit deeper, right? You'd be like, hey, you know what? Maybe we should go to dinner with one of them, but we've got to get to know them first. Don't waste your time going to coffee. Here's the thing. If you feel like it'd be a waste of time to take them to dinner, then it's a waste of time to take them to coffee. It's the same concept. Because it's still, you know, like- That already tells me-

01:00:23
You're like, it's not as big of a cost investment, but if you're going with someone- But it's not cost, it's time. That it's still a cost, like time and money, like they're costs to you, right? I have much more money to spend than hours in the day. So if I'm going to like work dinners, Friday nights, Saturday nights, Sunday is the only day I have time to go grab a coffee. That's where I get confused. Where it's like-

01:00:46
Cause the same girl will say, I don't want coffee. I want dinner, but it's like, you also want to go with a guy that's doing something with his life and that requires my schedule to be pretty crazy. Okay. But you're not going to have time to go to dinner with someone that you're with. If I'm with them, yeah. Then I won't do a work dinner on a Friday night. Okay. To your point, I'm not going to cancel a work dinner to go out with someone I don't know. Yes, of course. But what I'm saying is.

01:01:13
narrow down your options so that you actually find someone you're willing to spend more time with because objectively you're wasting a lot more time going on many coffee dates than you are just going on one dinner date with someone you actually like. Does that make sense? Yeah. And don't I go on one date a quarter. So let's get that very clear. It's not like a common thing. Yes. Because again, I'm fucking busy.

01:01:41
Yeah, we need a brown couch for Chris to lay on. Well, at least gives him feedback. Sorry, I know. I'm good. One to punch a room there. Yes. It's good to talk about time. You got to make time for these potential. Women that I mean, nothing you can't say you're so busy and still be looking for a partner, you might just be too busy for a partner or we're not going to time. Managing to everyone. This is what it's done. Chris is hit.

01:02:10
is scared to the busyness. Yeah. So that's the problem. There's a lot of, no woman is going to be okay with you because then that's all on your time. If you're going to be in a partnership, you have to consider their needs and feelings. Also, you can't just say, oh, I'm so busy. And I want someone to wait at home while I only have one Sunday coffee date for them.

01:02:36
And then they have to be fully loyal to me and fully dedicated to me. I'm not going to take them to dinner because I don't have time and I'm too busy. Oh, that's different. It sells your things, but how are you going to do that? I bought my ex-girlfriend a house. All right. I'm very generous, very giving of my time. Ryan will tell you too much. I just cut off with a girl and bought her a fucking car two days before. Believe me, I am very generous, but it's more of finding a girl that can respect a man that's on a mission in building and be okay with that and then not.

01:03:05
You're like, you're not giving enough. I think we're talking about two different things. I think, Elise, you're talking about once Chris is with someone, he'll have the time, he'll make the time because she's proven, they've proven worthy to one another for that, right? Not just that she's been worried to him versus how much time do we have to devote to finding that person and having been jaded from carving out a lot of time to do that and being.

01:03:35
disappointed in the investment made. I think that's the world we live in is how do you get by like the repeated investment that goes nowhere? Yeah, dude, find someone who's willing to get on the phone first and see what type of person they are. If they're not willing to have a phone call with you and they just want to go to dinner, I don't think they deserve the effort of going to dinner. This is Chris's first dates. That's like a video call like this. Yeah.

01:04:01
I'll schedule them on. Will you go on this zoom with me? And my partner Ryan's going to be the for him to figure out if we're compatible. I'm not actually I might need both of you. I need a lease. This is a big red buzzer. Just come with you to the med spa and we'll just interview people as we're getting facials. Yes, there you go. Next. You can do that. Elise.

01:04:30
Where can everybody learn more about everything you're doing? What you got going on? I'm available on all social medias at least Michaels and at least Michaels.com Elise L E L I S E Michaels, M I C H E A L S. Yes. E A L S. There it is. We'll have all that in the show notes for everyone listening.

01:04:53
you'll know where to click and find her. Elise, we appreciate you coming on, being fluid with us and our discussion. I think, I do think there's a lot of value here and people learning, because I think there's a lot of people that listen that are dealing with these things in one way, shape or form, either with existing relationships or finding new ones and understanding the men's psyche and all this. I appreciate being here. You guys are a riot and I loved every minute of it. It was fun. Yeah.

01:05:22
We'll have to do it again. We'll connect in Tampa, in the spa. The spa. There you go. You know where to find us, the vacaypodcast.com. V-A-Y-C-A-Y, the only way to vacay. Go to takeavacay.com. It's Chris and I's plant-based premium company. Third-party lab tested all of our products. Go check those out. And we appreciate all your support. For Chris Hansen in Miami, I'm Ryan Alford from the studios in Greenville, South Carolina. We'll see you next time.

01:05:51
on the VK Podcast.